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Dear Friend,

This week I’m pretty excited, we’re going to be talking about a very interesting subject.

I have run into a gentleman by the name of Scott Ginsberg, and you may have seen Scott on television, most recently he was on 20/20, and it was a very interesting story because here’s a guy he’s under 30 years old, and for 2515 days, as of the recording of this podcast, he has chosen to wear a name tag 24/7. 

And it’s been a very interesting study for him.  It started out as something that he thought he would do as a pretty neat little experiment, and it’s turned into an opportunity for him to become the world’s foremost expert in approachability.  And, you know, as I found our more about him, and got to know him a little bit, and studied a lot of his work, I started finding that, boy there really is some pretty cool stuff here. 

You know, he’s saying, and you’ll hear in the interview here, that over that 2500 days on average he’s had 3 to 5 people a day approach him, people who otherwise probably wouldn’t have approached him.  And I just got to thinking, what would it be like for your business if 3 to 5 people a day were magnetised enough to you, as a person, not leading with your profession as a realtor, but magnetised enough to you that you were approachable as a person, that you were able to start 3 to 5 conversations a day with people who you otherwise probably wouldn’t have started conversations with.  I’ve got to believe that that would be a pretty exciting thing for you, it would have a pretty good impact on your business.

So I’m very excited, it’s going to be a two-part series here, today we’ll talk with Scott about this concept of approachability, some strategies that you can use to become more approachable in your every day life, and then next week we’ll talk about even more specific strategies that you can apply here.

So here’s an interview that I got to do today with Scott, and then after the interview we’ll talk just a little bit more, and I’ll talk about something we can test out this week as a little experiment, and we’ll talk about it on the message board, and then in next week’s Marketing Monday.  So enjoy the interview.

SG:  Deano, what’s up man?

DJ:  How are you?  Where in the world is Scott Ginsberg today?

SG:  He’s in St Louis, in his hometown for once, which is kind of nice.

DJ:  You’ve been travelling quite a bit lately, huh?

SG:  Yeah, the falls a really busy time, I’ve got a lot of client that I’m working with, and this is one work for – Actually I was in New York earlier this week, so I’ve got the rest of the weekend, just going to hang out and relax and get some sleep.

DJ:  Well good for you.  Well Scott, I’ve been talking about you here on Marketing Monday, and letting people know about your story, and how we kind of came to know each other.  Now today I noticed on your website is day number 2,515 of wearing your name tag 24/7.

SG:  I know, man.

DJ:  So what’s been the story so far?  What’s the journey been like going from kind of a crazy, simple idea to being on CNN and 20/20 and four books, and hundreds of speaking engagements later, what’s kind of been the journey so far?

SG:  The best way that I could summarise it would be unexpected, but not surprising.

DJ:  Uh-huh.

SG:  And here’s why I say that.  I started wearing a name tag just for fun about seven years ago just to encourage friendliness, and I think the reason I did it echoes what Tom Peters said, that “The only people who change the world are the ones who just get really pissed off at something.”

DJ:  Right.

SG:  And my sort of obsession was how come people aren’t saying “Hi,” to each other, and how come we can’t just talk to strangers, you know that whole thing.

DJ:  Right.

SG:  I did for fun ‘cause I wanted to, you know, make some friends and just encourage people to feel comfortable, and just as the trajectory sort of took off, and over the years it just built into this obvious career choice.  And I say ‘choice’ because it chose me.  Like two year after I started wearing a name tag I wrote a book because when I was seven years old I actually wanted to grow up to become an author.

DJ:  Right, yeah.

SG:  Which is kind of cool, it’s like Michael Angelo says “The sculpture is already inside the stone.”  So when this book came out, I was like “Man, this has got to be the right thing.”  So it came out, and I just did this media explosion, which was unexpected because I didn’t do any PR, they just started calling me, and I did all these interviews, and companies and organisations would hire me to speak and to do training programs on the topic of approachability, which as I look back I realise that’s kind of what it was the whole time.  I didn’t know it at the time, but after a few years I’m like “Oh, wait a minute, duh, this is approachability.  That’s what it is.”  And it’s sort of the concept of not practicing what you preach, but instead preaching what you practice.

DJ:  That’s great, I like that.

SG:  That’s – and again, I didn’t even realise it, but I’d been doing all this stuff for years, and then I went back and said “Okay, what have I learnt, what have I done,” ‘cause people don’t care that I wore a name tag every day, they just care what I wore after turning a name tag into an entire company.  So that’s what I do, I just shared my lessons learnt and, you know, things I’ve screwed up, and how I’ve grown and changed, and people are embracing it, and it’s creating a lot of positive stuff.

DJ:  Well, you know, it’s been fascinating to watch sort of the evolution of the idea, you can see the growth, even in you, in the progression of your books.  I mean, you wrote ‘Hello, My Name is Scott,’ which was your first book that kind of told the story of it, and it was all kind of new, and it was your recollections of what had happened in the first two years.  But then as you got into the power of approachability, and how to be that guy, then your ‘Make a Name For Yourself,’ you can see the evolution of this, that this is really becoming a very powerful philosophy really.

SG:  Yeah.  I mean it’s kind of like when you were watching the movie Memento, it was in reverse, like you didn’t know what was going to happen, and neither did the guy on screen.  So like people that are following me right along, I can’t wait to see what’s going to happen next.  I mean, it’s like I’m creating a movie that I have no idea what’s going to happen, and I learn about stuff, and I share with people as it’s happening, not because I thought it would.  It’s neat, it’s sort of organic.

DJ:  Right.  You know, when you – I remember you saying that approximately three to five times a day, this is when you wrote your first book, that somebody will approach you because you’ve got your name tag on.  Has that been true still now for these – on the 2500th day that you’re wearing your name tag, are you still finding that people are approaching you maybe three to give time a day?

SG:  Yeah, I would say that’s still pretty accurate.  I mean, it definitely depends, like I was in Florida last week and I gave a speech to 4,000 people, so it was a little bit more then three to five.

DJ:  Right.

SG:  So, you know, it all averages out.  But yeah, I mean it’s still pretty consistent, and it’s cool, and I’ve – I mean, I’ve actually done the calculation that over seven years I’ve probably met like 150,000 people.

DJ:  Right.

SG:  Which, I mean, I can’t claim to be friends with all those people, and certainly haven’t been able to, you know, touch all of them, but I still think it’s ultimately a numbers game, and it’s an opportunity and I think of some of the great friends that I’ve made and the opportunities to help, and also to be helped, so it’s pretty cool to think that over the years this expediential increase in encounters has really paid off.

DJ:  Oh, that’s so funny.  You know, as I’m listening, I was reading I remember you – what fascinated me is because what I specialise in is, you know, direct response marketing, which is very kind of scientific and measurable, and what impressed me very much was how you took kind of a scientific approach to observing the types of people that end up approaching you when you had your name tag.  And, you know, can we talk about a few of those, because I found – you know, the first question that people have is “Well, what’s going to happen if I wear a name tag?”  Even if – I’ve been encouraging people just to try it for 48 hours, or for 72 hours, just to try wearing a simple name tag, and see what happens. 

And I wrote down some of the numbers that you said of the types of people that will approach you, and the first of those was the enquirer, which you said was about 35% of the people.  What kind people are those?

SG:  Well the interesting part about the interaction, and this is – once again this is something I learned like five years after the fact, but human beings engage with each other for only five reasons; to learn, to help, to relate, to influence, and to play.  Those are the five reasons.

And then what I learnt was that there were actually only five interactions, or five personality types of people that would approach me with my name tag, and they correlate exactly with this interpersonal principle.  So that in and of itself is really kind of spooky and cool.

DJ:  Yeah.

SG:  But the enquirer is just like “Dude, do you know you’re still wearing your name tag?”

DJ: 

SG:  Or, you know, “Where were you today that you needed a name tag?” or “Where do you work?” or something like that, and I always just – I mean, for seven years I’ve said the same thing, I smile at people and say “No, I always wear a name tag.”

DJ:  Yeah.

SG:  That’s it.  And the weird thing is, you know, when I was a little younger I would like go into this whole explanation and start talking about the whole idea, but, you know, you don’t have a lot of time to deliver value with your sound bite, people aren’t going to sit there and listen for 30- seconds.

DJ:  Right, right.

SG:  So all I can say is “I always wear name tags,” and about 90% of the people say “Oh, that’s really cool,” and 10% of the people say “That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen.”

DJ: 

SG:  That’s the first personality type, 35% of the people will just ask.

DJ:  Yes.  Now –

SG:  Oh, go ahead.

DJ:  I was going to say, it’s funny because you’ve even narrowed it down a little bit more from the last iteration that I had heard from you, which was “I wear it all the time, it makes people more friendly,” or friendlier.

SG:  Well it’s so weird.  I mean, for a long time I would say “I always wear it to make people friendlier.”

DJ:  Uh-huh.

SG:  Even that is too many words, and too much time.  Like if I’m in a conversation and I say “I always wear it,” before I can say the words “To make people friendlier,” they’re already laughing. 

DJ:  That’s so funny, yeah.

SG:  It’s weird though.  I mean, it’s just – but it’s the acceleration of technology, and it’s our hyper speed culture, and the narrowing window, and peoples’ attention span, and all that, you know, sociological stuff that people don’t have time, so I have to really par it down to this sound bite “I always wear it,” and that’s it.  I just stick myself out there and just see how they respond.

DJ:  And where does it go from there typically?

SG:  It depends.  Like I said, a lot of people will just kind of smile.  And the cool thing is I think the lesson to be learned from this interaction is that when you’re talking with someone and they say, you know, “What do you do,” or “Where do you work,” I think the challenge is to be able to answer it in a way that elicits a follow up question and allows the other person to take it however they want.

So when someone says “You know you’re still wearing a name tag,” I say “Yeah, I always wear it.”  And then I pause, and I just wait.  Because some people, even if they’re like a really friendly person, or maybe they like Sienfield or whatever, they’re like “Oh yeah, you know, that’s a great idea.  You know, everybody should wear name tags, blah, blah, blah,” and we start talking.

DJ:  Uh-huh.

SG:  I don’t like say “Oh, yeah, you know, you should buy my book,” and “You know, I give speeches,” and you know, no one cares.

DJ:  Right.

SG:  I just – I let the other person direct the conversation according to their needs, and I think that is what approachability is all about.

Now on the other hand, some people just look at me and they just don’t get it, they don’t know what to do with it, they’re like “Ah, that’s weird,” or “Ah, are you serious?” and, you know, it’s just amazing how many of thousands of times it’s happened that based on somebody’s response to my answer “I always wear it,” I can pretty much tell you everything about that person, and whether or not he or she and I will have a connection.

DJ:  That’s amazing, isn’t it?  It’s also like knowing what’s coming, right?  It’s a system, is really what it is, it’s predictable.  Because you’ve all the elements are the same.  You’ve got – you wear the same name tag in the same place, people ask you a question and you respond in exactly the same way, and after, you know, a hundred thousand times of that happening you pretty much know there’s only a few variations of where that’s going to go from there.

SG:  There is.  I mean, you almost have to think of it as like a decision tree.  Like at the top of a wide sheet of paper it said “I always wear it,” there is, you know, only probably half a dozen, you know, dominant responses, and from each of those I can tell you exactly where the conversation’s going.  I’ve done it so many times, and there’s just like a reservoir of sort of material that I’m just going to say, very conversationally, and I think it’s cool because people are not expecting it.

What I’ve learnt in marketing is that the most effective way to capture someone’s attention is to break their pattern.

DJ:  Uh-huh.  Well, you know, it’s almost like magnetic in a way that somebody can’t handle the dissonance of seeing someone in a unusual environment, wearing a name tag for no apparent reason.  Their mind cannot let that just sit.  It has to make up some kind of scenario for that, and if they can’t make up the scenario, they have to ask.

SG:  Right.  Usually.  You know, some people, like certain personality types just have to know, or you know, a lot of people will just say “Okay, so I have to ask.”

DJ:  Yeah.

SG:  Okay, but that’s interesting, because what you’re doing is you’re appealing a human being’s curious nature, and you’re stimulating the emotions of sort of “Okay, why is this there?  Why is this out of place?  I need to find out.”  So by doing that I think “Yeah, it’s definitely magnetic,” that’s one way to put it, I think of it as “Approachability,” but you know, call it whatever you want. 

The challenge is to stimulate curiosity whether it’s with your marketing materials, your conversation on the phone, whatever, you need to get people to say “Okay, you know what?  I just have to ask.”

DJ:  Uh-huh.

SG:  If you can get that sentence to come out of someone’s mouth two things happen; number one, you’re engaging with them, which is huge.  And number two, you stimulated interest which has allowed the other person to give you permission to talk more.  That’s the whole key.

DJ:  Oh yeah.

SG:  I mean, Seth Godin wrote about permission marketing with someone given you their email, well this a smaller scale.  See, attention is like the most precious commodity in the world, and people don’t have time to talk to you, and they don’t care, and they don’t want to bother you for ten minutes.  But if you can get them, remember approachability is a two-way street, it’s not just sticking yourself out there, it’s getting them to come to you.

DJ:  Right.

SG:  So if you can get them to come to you with a question like “Okay, I’ve just got to know,” they have just given you a permission slip that says “It is okay to share with this person whatever you want to talk about,” that is a lever of comfort you built by stimulating curiosity.

DJ:  Yes.  Fascinating.  Now do you think, ‘cause I’ve been wondering this, about the difference between wearing a hand-written, just a simple name tag with your first name, versus wearing a, you know, a professional printed or engraved name tag with your company logo on it for instance.  A lot of real estate agents wear name tags that, you know, have their company logo on them kind of thing, but what do you perceive as the difference there?

SG:  The difference goes back to curiosity, and I mean first of all, anyone who wears a name tag on a regular basis, good for them, and I do not think we should all wear name tags, trust me, it’s a terrible idea.

DJ: 

SG:  And I’ve stalkers, I’ve had death threats, I get hate mail, trust me, you don’t want to it.  But that’s for later on in the conversation. 

So if somebody wears a name tag for real estate and it says, you know, “Prudential,” and I’m happy to see that.  One of the reasons that I’ve always chosen to do the hand-written, personal, adhesive name tags is number one, I think it looks more approachable, I think it’s friendly, I think it’s very simple and pure, you know, hand writing.

DJ:  Yeah.

SG:  The second reason I do it is because the company that makes the name tags, MACO, they sponsor me and give them to me for free.

DJ:  Well there you go.

SG:  But the third and most important reason I do it is because it is big enough to stimulate interest, yet delivers enough information that people will comfortable. 

DJ:  Yes.

SG:  So it says “Scott,” but it doesn’t have under my name, you know, that I write books and you know, publish video materials, no one cares about that.  I think that the point of a name tag is to get people to say “Hi,” and that’s it.  I mean, the whole – its just about engaging people.  See if you have a name tag that says you work for like, I don’t know, North Western Mutual, and unfortunately that company has a reputation of a lot of hard selling, maybe someone’s going to see that name tag and be like “Oh, no North Western Mutual.”

DJ:  Yeah, stay away from them.

SG:  Right.  So like the whole point of approachability is comfort, that’s it.  The number one goal in every conversation you have with anybody is to make them feel comfortable talking to you.

DJ:  And that’s it.  You know, I thought about the brilliance of the hand-written, just the purity of that name tag, is that it is approachable, yet it doesn’t answer the riddle that’s going on in somebody’s head as to why you’re wearing that name tag.

If I’m wearing a name tag that’s got my name and my Remax balloon or my Prudential rock, or whatever it is, people can – this is my perception saying somebody’s going to look at that, and the question that’s going on in their mind, the silent dialogue that’s going on in those two scenarios, they look at the hand-written one and they go “I wonder what that – why is that guy wearing that name tag, I’ve got to know.”  And the other scenario, they look at it “Why is that guy wearing the name tag.  Oh, he’s in real estate.  I’m not thinking about buying, I’d better not talk to him.”

It almost seems like, right, they come to the conclusion that you’re wearing the name tag for a purpose.

SG:  Sure.  But that’s the challenge with sales and marketing, to not be – is to not be so goal oriented to …

DJ:  Right.

SG:  … from outcomes.  Because if someone sees that they’re either going to say “Well I don’t need a house, I’m not going to talk to Scott,” or “This guy works for Prudential, man he’s just going to try to sell me a house, or get a referral from my sister.  I don’t want to talk to the guy.”

DJ:  Right.

SG:  It’s representative of a major problem that I see.  I think that people like to put their profession first.

DJ:  Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.

SG:  And I think that’s a mistake, because number one, people don’t care.  Number two, not everybody is defined by their profession, and number three, that is a representation of being goal oriented.  Like “I’m just trying to make a sale.  I’m just trying to get my [web tracker] up.”  No.  We need to be connecting personally before professionally. 

Nobody cares what your last name is, no one cares what you do.  Put your name on there, just connect, just make a friend.  Eventually if you want to talk about business, great, if not, who cares.

DJ:  Yes.

SG:  Detach from outcomes, have some fun, make people feel comfortable, because then, and only then, is trust a possibility, at which point if you want to talk about making a deal, cool, let’s do it.

DJ:  Yeah, see that, what you just said there, I mean, a lot of times where people look at their self, their more hardline in a way sometimes, and say “Okay, well I’ll try that,” but they’re trying it as a strategy that is going to get immediate results.  So they wear it for a day or two days and say

Especially if you’re in you’re local area, you know?  It’s almost like in a way you’re gong to be much more known for that even almost.

SG:  Yeah.  I mean I would say that I definitely get recognised more in my home town then I do abroad.  Although it’s kind of neat, in the past – I guess in 2007, occasionally I’ll get recognised like in an airport in Dallas or like Toronto or something, and it’s kind of neat, and also humbling, and also kind of scary, because it’s – I don’t know, it’s just of cool, I guess it represents the evolution.  Like Edward Di Bono said “The measure of a great thinker is how far his thoughts travel.”

DJ:  That’s great.  Well let’s talk a bit about some of the concepts in your book How To Be – and I want to get the inflection right, ‘cause we were talking about that, it’s How To Be That Guy.

SG:  Well yeah, it’s like the challenge is that in our – maybe it’s an American thing, maybe it’s a Canadian thing, I don’t know, but I think when someone says “Oh, don’t be that guy,” it’s negative. 

DJ:  Right.

SG:  It’s like “Don’t be that guy who’s always selling, or who’s always handing out cards, or who’s vomiting on your shoes in the pub.”

DJ:  Right.

SG:  That’s not what the book is about.  The book is how to be – and listen very closely – how to be That Guy.

DJ:  That Guy, there you go.

SG:  It’s the difference in as much as it’s attractive, and it delivers value, and it’s approachable.  And I mean, I wrote that book two years ago, is it two years?

DJ:  Yeah, 2006, yeah.

SG:  Yeah, so – ‘cause I started writing about two years ago.  So I wrote it because I just thought alright, you know, I made a whole career out of wearing a name tag, how did this happen?  And I realised that I had become that guy.  I mean, a lot of people don’t even call me Scott, they just call me The Name Tag Guy.

So like if I call – if I’m on the phone with a client, like “Yeah, may I ask who’s calling?”  “Yeah, tell Dean its The Name Tag Guy.”

DJ:  Yeah, right.  Right, right.

SG:  So I just, that’s what I do.  That’s my job title, like if I travel abroad on the occupation part of the customs sheet I actually write that one there.

DJ:  Oh really.

SG:  Yeah, I don’t want to talk about the body cavity search I got in Switzerland though, so…

DJ:  Oh right.   Oh, that’s funny.  You know, it’s…

SG:  Go ahead.

DJ:  No, you go ahead.

SG:  Oh cool.  So, long story short, book was written because I don’t think that people trust companies.  I think people trust people.  I think that people are not loyal to companies, they’re loyal to people.  That along with about 15 other sub-points about the nature of our personal culture means that, you know what?  They’re buying you.  Not Remax, not Prudential, not the financial organisation you represent, they’re buying you first.

So if you can position yourself as that guy, it means you have answered two crucial questions, and I’ll share those questions with you right now.

DJ:  Okay.

SG:  Number one, what are you known for.  And number two, what are you known as.  If you could just figure out the answer to those questions, I suggest you email 20 of your clients and have them answer back to you, and hopefully 17 of them will say the same words.  If not, you can just ask your friends and sort of think about it yourself.  But yeah, I mean, it’s like what are you known for?

I’ll give you a great example.  A couple of years ago I was giving a speech in a church, and this guy that worked there, I mean he worked at the church but he had a job in sales, every single day he would change his answering machine and have an up lifting, like positive quotation on his voice mail.  And he told me that people would call him every single day just to hear the quote.  That’s cool, that’s what he was known for.

DJ:  Okay, that is pretty cool, yeah.

SG:  And you can certainly say, you know, he’s The Quote Guy, or you can call whenever you want, but I think it was cool because this guy was know for that, which if you really get down to it, he’s known for having a great attitude, and for, you know, having fun, and having these great little quotations and stuff like that, that’s the kind of guy I want to do business, I don’t know about you.

That’s how you be that guy, you can answer those two questions.

DJ:  That’s fantastic.  You know, as I was going through it, I was thinking about a couple of examples in my own life of people that, you know, have sort of taken that position, and you know, there’s a guy up here in Toronto, Russell Oliver, who he’s a jeweller but he buys your gold.  You know, it’s what he’s known for.  And he’s got these crazy ads on TV of, you know, where he’s kind of a little over the top, and “I’m Russell Oliver and I buy your gold.  Your old broken, used gold, any gold, if you bring it down I’ll buy it.”  This full thing, so it’s like, you know, when you think about it, it’s like you know Russell Oliver is that guy that buys your gold.  And everybody knows who he is, and…

SG:  Well you’re right.  I mean, here’s a perfect example because while you were telling that story, I Googled him and he’s on Wikipedia.

DJ:  Oh yeah, I mean he’s very famous in Toronto.  And…

SG:  Oh yeah, look at this.  He wears a pair of – I’ve never seen him but I guess he wears tights as the Cash Man, and he’s the Loan Arranger.

DJ:  Well now – see, this is where he’s kind of gone – he’s kind of split his, you know, split his purpose here.  You know, it used to be he would just buy your gold, now he can buy your gold, but he can also arrange a loan for you.  And I think he’s watered it down a little bit, you know?

But just the purity of the “I buy your gold,” was really what built him into who he is, you know?  And it kind of – I guess in a way, it kind of gave him the platform to do what else he does now, you know?

SG:  Hang out with that guy.

DJ:    Then there’s a place in San Francisco called Max’s Opera House Café, and it’s a place where all the waiters, all the servers, are performers, and they take – they rotate and they take turns like performing and singing in the café.  So it’s kind of – you know, Max is the guy that has that café where everybody sings at the piano.  And it’s kind of – it’s interesting how when you really start to think of it, you know, you look at you as the perfect example, you know, what are you know for?  You’re the guy that wears that name tag all the time.

SG:  Sure.

DJ:  And you own that word ‘approachability’ it’s been pretty – I think that’s pretty cool.

SG:  And the interesting thing is I get a lot of – you might not believe this, I actually get a fair amount of hate mail.  Over the years…

DJ: 

SG:  I know, I know, it’s hilarious, laugh it up jerk.

DJ: 

SG:  No, but it’s like – yeah, I get letters from people that are like “Yeah, you know, wearing a name tag is not a unique idea, I could have done that.”  And I’ve always responded with two comments.  The first is “You know what?  You’re right.  You probably could have done that.  But you didn’t.”

DJ:  Yeah.  Right, exactly.

SG:  And the second comment is, you know, they say “Wearing a name tag is not a unique idea.”  I agree.  I fully respond back to them and say “You’re right.  Wearing a name tag is not a unique idea.  But if you think that this whole thing that I’m doing is about a name tag, you have not been listening.”

DJ:  Right.

SG:  ‘Cause it’s not the idea, it’s how you leverage it.  Ideas area free, but execution is priceless.

DJ:  It reminds now you – You know, Lance Armstrong had his book ‘It’s Not About The Bike.’

SG:  Oh yeah.

DJ:  Maybe that could be a book title for you, ‘It’s Not About The Name Tag.’

SG:  That book is already in the works.

DJ:  Oh there you go, perfect.

SG:  Yeah, I mean, I’ve got like – I’m working on like ten different books right now, but I think the book ‘It’s Not About The Name Tag,’ I should probably wait another ten year or so, just, you know, I’ve got to wait until I’m like super rich for that one.

DJ:  So you have a legacy, yeah.

SG:  Right, right.  You know, once I get on Wikipedia, then I’ll write the book ‘It’s Not About The Name Tag.’

DJ:  There you go.

SG:  So people will know they heard it first on Marketing Monday.

DJ:  There we go.  Hey, well let’s talk about writing a little bit, because you are a prolific writer, I mean, you’ve written, you know, you’re not 30 yet are you?

SG:  Nope.

DJ:  Not 30 yet, you’ve written four incredibly wonderful books, you plan on continuing writing books, you’ve been talking and you’re telling me you’ve got a couple more coming out this year, and you write on your blog every single day, which everybody should go and take a look at by the way.  You can get there from hellomynameisscott.com.

SG:  Yeah, the blog is easy to remember, its just hellomynameisblog.com

DJ:  hellomynameisblog.com, yes.  Now let’s talk about writing because, you know, our audience is mostly real estate agents, mortgage lenders, what could writing possibly do for them?

SG:  Okay.  I’m going to start this discussion by sharing with your listeners the number one greatest piece of business advice I ever received of all time.

DJ:  Here we go.  Get your pens ready.

SG:  Yeah, get this one down.  My mentor is a guy named Jeffrey Gitomer, I’m sure you’ve heard of him before.

DJ:  Yes.

SG:  He’s a sales expert, and I met him years ago, we connected through our professional association, he’s been a great friend and a mentor to me over the years, and he taught me, here it is, this is the gold; writing is the basis of all wealth.

DJ:  Uh-huh.  Writing…

SG:  Yes, just let it sink it.

DJ:  Just let it – now I’ll repeat it for effect here.  Writing is the basis of all wealth.

SG:  I’ll give you a couple of examples as to why that’s true.

DJ:  Okay.

SG:  I started my company unexpectedly.  I wrote this book for fun, I was in college, had a good time with it, just ‘cause, ‘cause I wanted to write a book.  But then when once the book came out, all these opportunities started coming to me.  I never called – in my entire life I’ve never pitched the media, and I’ve done more media then most people twice my age. 

Because I had this book out, and it was a unique concept, and I had written about my stories and examples, and people came to me.  I mean, my entire careers is because I just wrote this one book.  That’s one example.

Let me give you the best example of all.  Earlier this year, June 15th to be exact, I had an opportunity to be interviewed on 20/20, and if you want to watch the clip at 20/20 it’s on my blog.  Anyway, so the way that I got on 20/20 is the producer from NBC calls me out of nowhere, they want to do this upcoming episode about how to create your own luck. 

Now that’s a topic that I’ve written extensively one, because well I’ve done that extensively, I’ve created my own luck not just through wearing a name tag, but through writing. 

See if you go on the internet, if you write the word ‘approachability,’ or ‘approachable,’ or ‘name tag’ you’re going to find hundreds of articles that I’ve written and published and put everywhere about the topic educating people.  This producer from NBC found one of those articles, she Googled the exact phrase “The luckiest person you know.”

I wrote and article called “How to Become the Luckiest Person You Know.”

DJ: 

SG:  Alright?  So the first ten hits on Google were like my blog, my website, you know, ezinarticles.com, all these different places where the article was, she read it, she called me, she booked me for the show.  That episode aired in June, okay?  So we’re recording this in September, she did that episode in June, I’ve already made $30,000.

DJ:  Isn’t that great?

SG:  Based off of clients I’ve got or products I’ve sold because of that particular episode, and I’m sure it’s going to lead to a lot more, and increased credibility, blah, blah, blah, all because of one article.  So writing truly is the basis of all wealth, even if you’re not a writer.  That’s the key. 

Because I’m sure a lot of real estate agents are listening in like “Yeah, you know, I’m not a writer.”  Doesn’t matter.

DJ:  Yeah.  Almost like that’s the end of it.  Yeah “I’m not a writer, I don’t need to write.”

SG:  Yes you do.  Everyone needs to write for clarity, for mediation.  It doesn’t matter if you’re good.  I can’t say I was good when I started, but you do just a little bit every day, it starts to build up.  And you know, real estate agents, you have such great opportunities to educate people about, you know, finances, about fixing up houses, about looking for trends.  I mean, gosh, real estate agents know so much that your average Joe knows nothing about, it would be so easy to just start writing a little bit on a regular basis, educating your clients and prospects, publishing on the internet, and I guarantee you that maybe six, eight, ten months after writing every single day, just a little, people will start to come to you.  It does work, that is what you call sticking yourself out there and getting them to come to you.  That’s another form of approachability.

I mean, that’s the thing, like approachability, it’s you know, it’s the two-way street, it’s outbound and inbound, but it’s not just talking to someone at a networking event, it could be on the internet, it could be out in the industry, it’s about sticking yourself out there and getting them to come to you in whatever medium they choose.

DJ:  You know, that kind of hints at another one of your principles that I know you have, that if you could talk a little bit about the difference between a website versus a web presence.

SG:  Right, that goes hand-in-hand with writing.  Because it’s 2007 okay?  Having a website is no longer good enough.  Every ten year old kid with access to the internet that knows how to use Dream Weaver can make a site just as good as mine, I guarantee it.  It’s so easy to do, it’s cheap, anyone can do it.

So because it’s so easy, and because websites deliver very little value, I mean, like my friend Greg Peters says that a website is like a newspaper, nobody wants to read it if its two years old.

DJ:  Uh-huh.

SG:  That’s why blogs, message boards, Wiki’s, videos, all that kind of stuff that you update regularly, that’s part of your web presence.  Google rankings, you know, publishing articles, all that stuff.

See a web presence is anything on the internet that leads to your website that isn’t your website.

DJ:  Well like your articles.  Like your article “How to be the Luckiest Guy,” you know, that’s not your website per se, or that’s part of your web presence.

SG:  Totally.  It filters people in.  Like if you use My Space, Face Book, Linked In, Zoom Info, any of those, that is like putting another stake in the ground.

See the problem with most people in marketing is that they are earthworms when they should be an octopus.

DJ:    What does that mean?

SG:  It means they’re not slimy enough.  No.

DJ: 

SG:  I’m just kidding, that’s terrible.  No.  The difference is earthworms only can go in one direction, they just move forward, that’s it.  Octopus goes all over the place, eight different directions, putting his tentacles out all over the place.  That’s a web presence.  If you’ve got a website, you’re an earthworm.  If you have a web presence you’re an octopus, you’re everywhere.  And the more tentacles you have, the more money you make.

DJ:  That’s fascinating.  That’s pretty cool, because you know, it’s something how we’ve been talking about blogs on Marketing Monday, and you know, among people that are familiar with me, you know, even a few years ago talking about blogs, when it was just kind of starting.  And some people have really taken that on.  But you know, and…

SG:  Blogs…

DJ:  Yeah.

SG:  Well blogs are at an interesting point because I’ve been blogging since ’03, which is pretty early, I mean blogs didn’t take off until the last couple of years, but yeah.  Blogs are in a point at their product life cycle where they’re starting to mature.  I mean, blogs are bordering on obsolete because video is really the next, or podcast, audio podcasts, video podcasts.

DJ:  Absolutely.

SG:  That’s really the next step.  See, blogs are valuable, I would say put your efforts into video and audio because video, I mean, audio yes, video for sure because video is in a place where blogs were three years ago.  I still believe in blogs and I’ll never stop blogging as long as I live, but in a couple of months I’m starting an online video training site called Name Tag TV.

DJ:  Oh, perfect.

SG:  Name Tag TV is going to be short, you know, three minute video clips on various modules that I teach people, different topics, and there’s different channels and DVDs and all kinds of stuff, because the blogging thing is soon not going to be as powerful as video will become.  So that’s what I would encourage people to do.  With your tentacles, try to wrap them around some video.

DJ:  Yeah.  That’s fantastic.  Scott, we got lots of great ideas here, lots of great – you know, I’ve got a couple of different categories of books and we put your books on my wisdom bookshelf.

SG:  Oh, thanks man. I thought you were going to say one of the categories is under your bird cage.

DJ:    No, so I – Thank you very much for sharing this time with us, you’ve been very generous with your time and your ideas.  I recommend everybody to go to your website hellomynameisscott.com, go to your blog hellomynameisblog.com, and certainly to check out all of Scott’s books, you know, ‘Hello, My Name is Scott’ was his first book, ‘The Power of Approachability’ is the second, ‘How to Become and Effective Engaging Communicator One Conversation at a Time,’ ‘How to be That Guy.’   ’47 Ways to Create and Unforgettable Brand that Magnetises More Business,’ and then the most recent one ‘How to Make a Name for Yourself.’  And they’re all fantastic.  So I would recommend them highly to anybody, you can go there and check them out.

SG:  And the good news is there are two more books coming out, it’s a series of books that I started, it’s the Approachability Series.  So the first two are The Approachable Front Line, for people who work in a service position, and then The Approachable Sales Person, which I know your guys are going to love, those are coming out in the next few months.  It’s going to start a whole series of books, and training kits, about approachability for specific groups.  Sales people, front line, retail, marketing, whatever.

DJ:  Perfect.  Well Scott, thank you very much again for your time, and we look forward to continuing the relationship.

SG:  Yes sir, likewise.

Well there we go.  I hope you got some great ideas from listening to this interview with Scott, I think he’s a phenomenal thinker, and I think with all of the strategies that he’s been developing about approachability are right on for real estate and mortgage professionals.
So I had this idea that what if we tested, just for this week, the concept of getting just a simple hand-written name tag that you place on your chest for maybe even just one day.  What if you tested it for one day, or for two days, or for 72 hours, just to see what happens, and then report back to us on the message board at marketingmonday.com so we can see what’s going on.  It would be very fascinating because if everything that Scott is saying about getting approached, or treated just a little bit differently because of having your name tag, if it will work in one day, it will certainly work the next day and the next day and the next day. 
So let’s just make a little pact to experiment.  Try it for one day, two days, maybe three days, report back on what happened, and let’s see what kind of stories we have to tell.
So until next week, that’s it for this week, and tune in next time we’ll talk about even more ways to use Scott’s ideas of the power of approachability.